Part 2: The Training

This Digital Resource is a repository that accompanies the Turn By Turn We Turn audio theatre, holding together the stories of traditional Chinese hand puppetry and how it has touched the different artists in The Finger Players. This segment follows Myra Loke and Ellison Tan, Co-Artistic Directors of the Finger Players, in their journey from being audiences, to apprentices and performers in the staging of Turn By Turn We Turn.
这份网络资源是一个陪同《掌中》有声剧场的资料库，把传统布袋偶的故事以及它对十指帮艺术家的种种感触系在一起。这个章节记载着十指帮现任联合艺术总监骆丽诗和陈宇泱以及他们的旅程 – 从起先的观众，晋升到学徒，到最后成为《掌中》演出的表演者。

“Rehearsal, Pack, Travel, Lights, Percussion, Curtain, Show, Applause, Dismantle, Travel, Again, Train, Laugh, Aches, Again, Rehearsal, Pack, Travel, Lights, Percussion, Curtain, Show, Applause, Dismantle, Travel, Again, Train, Laugh, Aches, Live.”

“排练、收拾、赶路、灯光、锣鼓、布幕、演出、掌声、拆台、赶路、再来、火车、笑声、疼痛、再来、排练、收拾、赶路、灯光、锣鼓、布幕、演出、掌声、拆台、赶路、再来、火车、笑声、疼痛、活着。”

Did both of you watch the initial version of Turn by Turn We Turn staged in 2011? What was that experience like?
你们都有来看2011年《掌中》的第一版舞台剧吗？当时的感觉是怎样的？ 

Ellison [E]: The first TFP play I watched was Turn By Turn We Turn (TBTWT). Before that, I had never heard of The Finger Players, but the pamphlet magically landed in my letterbox. At that time I was nearing graduation, and feeling very bleak about my future, and questions like “how to make this a career”, “how to be on stage”, “how to do what I love” were at the core of my existence. Because the story of TBTWT was about this master who is trying to keep his troupe alive during tumultuous times, and on a personal level I wanted to keep my art alive… I just felt like, “Wow, this is fate lah.” 
我看的第一出十指帮的演出就是《掌中》。在那之前我从来没有听说过十指帮，不过他们的宣传单就魔术般地出现在我的信箱里。那个时候我快要毕业了，觉得前途很迷惘，“怎么让这变成我的事业”，“怎么找到机会上台”，“怎么让我爱做的成为职业”， 这些问题都成为我生活的中心。《掌中》的故事讲述一个布偶师傅在纷乱时期怎么让剧团存活，我又想到自己想要让我的艺术存活，当时就觉得，”哇，这就是缘分吧。“

Myra [M]: For me, it’s the opposite. It wasn’t something that I felt strongly for. I’m not sure why. Maybe I was young, I was naive, I didn’t think that the idea of this art form (traditional or contemporary) was important to me then. But when we did it again for the 2014 staging, I recalled thinking, “Oh, I actually watched it, and now I feel so strongly about it.”
我和宇泱的感受是相反的。我没有特别强烈的感触，也不知道为什么。或许因为当时年轻，还很天真，并不觉得艺术（无论传统或是现代）是有重要性的。不过我们2014年演出的时候我就记得“哦，原来我看过这出戏，现在的感触竟然这么强烈。”

Tell us about the process of staging the 2014 version of TBTWT. How did you experience the training and rehearsals?
可不可以请你分享你2014年参与《掌中》演出的经验？当时的训练和排练过程是怎样的？

E: The training was very tough for me at that time. Two to six would be training with Shifu, then at night is the rehearsal. The training was not just physical, but also mental, because you had to remain in certain positions for a long period of time, like you hold your hand up here for 30 minutes, and you cannot do anything. You just have to hold it there. 
那个时候对我来说训练过程是艰苦的。下午两点到六点是和师傅的训练，晚上就是彩排。训练不止耗体力，也耗精力，因为你必须长时间保持在一个姿势，例如必须把手撑起，撑三十分钟，然后你也不能做些什么，只可以死命撑着。

M: The training is strenuous because of the strength we need to put into every muscle in our fingers, hands, wrists, arms, and then it links to the shoulder, back, knees, toes because of the posture. For me, because my hands are smaller than the rest, and I’m so much shorter, I am actually at a disadvantage. Some moves I can’t do as well as those with big hands or just because I’m not tall enough. We wear platform shoes to perform to elevate us more. But somehow, I tend to overcompensate. I made sure I could do the moves as best as everyone. Sometimes I’d be spending more time to modify my puppet or to find ways to create the same effect but not using the same methods — which actually in turn made it quite exciting because I’m not just following a set of routine, I’m trying to make it my own.

Also, through TBTWT and the other traditional Chinese hand puppet training, I learnt how to tip-toe and perform the scenes at the same time. Because sometimes even with the platform shoes, I’m not tall enough so I would just tip-toe throughout the scenes. At first, it was difficult but after a while it didn’t bother me anymore because I kept looking up at the puppet, which actually helps for balance because there is this fixed point.
因为有《掌中》和其它传统布袋偶的训练，我学会如何踮起脚尖演出。因为虽然穿上厚垫鞋，我还是不够高，所以很多场戏是踮着脚尖完成的。起初是有难度，不过过一会儿就不成问题了，因为我的目光是锁定在布偶身上的，这也有助于保持平衡因为目光是定住的。

After each day, our bodies will ache even more because the strain accumulates. I actually had medicated patches on my arms or shoulders or fingers sometimes during training, just so that I can still move. I remember we were exchanging tips for which brand of koyok was better, and I remember Wan Sze gave me a full-on tutorial on how to cut mini strips of the patch so I can go round each knuckle joint. Yeah, that was also part of the “suan-ness” and the rehearsal process.
每天累计下来我们的身体就更加酸痛。我的手部、肩膀和手指都贴上药膏布，就为了可以继续排练。我们还相互交换药膏布的心得，分享哪个品牌的最管用，宛诗还给了我非常周全的药膏布课程-怎么把药膏布剪成小片，这样就可以绕着每个手指关节。这就是我们排练过程的“酸”。

But I didn’t really dare to whine too much too, firstly because all the veteran puppeteers in TBTWT were also in this with me and every rehearsal/training, they just looked so fresh. Secondly, I guess it’s part of the process, and Shifu had definitely been through so much more pain. Plus, it’s because we don’t train as often – because after 2 months of training, we go into show and then after that we go on to do something else again and the cycle repeats. The pain is a reminder to me that I don’t train enough. And of course, a reminder that I have to work extra hard because of my body and its limitations.

What was your first encounter with Yi Hsin shifu like?
你和怡新师傅第一次接触是怎样的？

E: In my head, Yi Hsin shifu, before I met him, would be those very typical Chinese men types – you know, almost like the Huang Ah Ma in Huang Zhu Ge Ge type. But then when I met him, I was like, “Orh this man so cute” – so kindly, a bit mousy. But then when he comes to pry your fingers apart, then you will know like, yeah, he means business.
我在见到怡新师傅之前想象他就是个典型的中华男子类型，你知道吗，好像《还珠格格》里的皇阿玛那种。和他见面的时候就觉得，“哇这个人好可爱哦。” 感觉上很善良，很文静，轻声细语。不过当他过来掰开你手指的时候，你就知道他也不是省油的灯。

He was very nice. He doesn’t focus on what you don’t have, he will just make you get to where he would like you to get to. He would compliment you to make you feel good, for example. “你的手很大很好,”（Your hands are very big, very good.) but then after he praises you, he will have a follow-up sentence, “不过你的左手比右手好，因为你右手用太多。你右手写字对不对。写字不用那么用力。” (But your left hand is better than your right hand, because you use your right hand too much. You write with your right hand right, don’t write with so much force.)
他很细心，不会只专注你没有的，反而是会让你达到他觉得你潜力可以达到的地方。他会夸你，让你觉得有点沾沾自喜，例如他跟我说“你的手很大，很好。”，不过夸你过后他就会说“不过你的左手比右手好，因为你右手用太多。你右手写字对不对。写字不用那么用力。”

M: When we were training without Shifu, I had a very strong sense of like, “okay, these [moves] are from like these traditional Chinese hand puppetry, everything is a very fixed thing; you must learn the actual stance. You must replicate the actions to the point, and so everything is a bit more rigid and fixed. But when Yi Hsin shifu came, he was very open and flexible. I told him that I know that Beng Tian already shared with him about my hands being not big enough and me being not tall enough, of course, and these are facts. Then Yi Hsin shifu will say, “You have to find your own way.” I’m very glad that he didn’t really criticise; he just very gently said that “okay, you know, because your hands a bit smaller, this part you really got to practice more because you are at a disadvantage.” So he was a really different kind of master from what I imagined. Like in TBTWT  also, the master is very strict. But he’s a bit different from TBTWT’s version of Shifu.

Once, I was drilling a hole into the hand of that puppet so that we can put in the metal rod. Shifu really stood there the whole time I was doing this. He kept muttering under this breath 丽诗小心手，不要弄到手 (“Myra, be careful of your hand, don’t hurt your hand.”). Because the hand puppet fist was really small, it was indeed quite risky for me to use my bare hands to hold onto it. I was young then lah. The actual way is to use a plier to kiap it first. After I’m done, Shifu told me, our hands are what we used to create and make a living, so we have to protect them. Looking at this photo now, it’s quite emotional and there’s a bit of guilt too. At that moment, I took my hands so lightly. 
有一次我在布偶的手里钻洞，让布偶手中可以握着铁棒。师傅就全程站在那里看着我，一直低声说，丽诗小心手，不要弄到手。因为布偶的手很小，我徒手钻洞确实是危险的。那个时候年轻嘛，其实正确的方法是用钳子握着。我钻完洞后，师傅就说，我们是靠手进行创作，用手谋生的，所以应该好好保护它们。现在看着这张照片感触很多，也有一些内疚，因为那个时候的我，确实没有好好对待我的那双手。

What was the low point for you in training for the 2014 staging of TBTWT?
2014年你在排练《掌中》的时候，有没有排练的低潮？

E: My low point is having to “grow” the 金箍棒 (Golden Cudgel) lah. I was standing on a slope, and when you “grow” the stick, you had to “grow” it from the bottom, so it was hard to get a a good grip when you are not on flat ground, and  I didn’t know how to “运”（channel） the qi to “grow” it smoothly. I remember seeing Myra do it in an earlier rehearsal, and wondering what exactly was so wrong with me that I couldn’t even grow the 金箍棒 straight? It was just super slanted the whole time. I remember always finishing dinner early and coming back to do it. Beng Tian would offer various ways to try to mitigate the problem, but I still couldn’t do it. And I just felt, again, very useless.
低潮应该就是要让金箍棒亮相吧。那个时候金箍棒亮相的地方是在一个斜坡上。亮相是从下往上亮的，所以如果没有在平地是比较难握好，或许我当时也不会“运气”，让它亮得顺畅。我之前看到丽诗在另一个演出的彩排做了同样的动作，就很纳闷我到底为什么没有办法让金箍棒可以笔直地亮相。每次我做的时候都是歪的。我还记得我每次很快吃完饭，就回到排练室尝试。鸣阗也会提各种意见，想方设法帮我，可是我就是做不到。我就再次觉得自己很没用。

At that time, I was also comparing myself to the four apprentices. When I was comparing our hands, I felt that mine are big and my fingers are long, but it just felt very useless because I’ve never used them before in that very micro manner. Joshua does piano, Huilin does piano; Myra’s hands are small, but they have a lot of strength because she builds all these props and puppets. Whereas my hand is big, but it’s useless. And I just felt like my “advantage” is useless and very superficial. That was a very lousy year on a personal level, because I felt that I was the most disadvantaged of the four of us, and that this was due to my “upbringing” in some sense. They were very stupid thoughts to have but I just needed something to blame because I felt so angry and useless at my inadequacy.
那个时候我也对照自己和其他的学徒，就觉得虽然手掌相对的比较大，手指比较长，不过是不中用的，因为我从来没有以这么细腻的方式用这双手。俊宏有弹钢琴，惠琳也是；丽诗的手虽然小，不过是有力的，因为她经常用双手做道具和偶。我的手虽然大，不过大得没用，所以原则上来说，我所谓的“优势“即没用又表面。那一年我想也是我本身一个很“低”的一年，因为我觉得我本质上和其他的学徒比起来最弱。我也知道这些想法很愚蠢，不过那个时候的我因为对自己的不足而感到懊恼和无助，所以就想有所寄托。

M: I mean, I think the entire journey is an accumulation of mini low points. Not a lot of major low points, I mean one is me spraining my ankle. I know that I have been tiptoeing because my entire body wasn’t in a good position, so when we’re moving, it buckled. As the stubborn and prideful one, I didn’t like the fact that the entire team had to adjust one of the scenes because they didn’t want me to be stamping on the ground. I felt so bad. We practiced that scene for so long, and now they had to learn a new sequence within such a short period of time.
我觉得整个过程就是累计下来的小挫折吧，也没有所谓的低潮，当然我扭到脚是其中一个。我的身体姿势因为必须踮起脚尖已经不好了，所以我们走动的时候，就扭到了。我性格倔强顽固，又有点傲气，很不喜欢整个团队因为必须迁就我而改变其中一幕戏，就因为他们不希望我在那场戏跺脚。我觉得很不好意思。那场戏我们练了这么久，现在他们必须在这么短的时间内学会一场新的编排。

Were there any breakthroughs for you in the 2014 staging?
2014年的演出你们有那些突破？

M: I always enjoy the feeling of the opening scene with the puppets. The music was really nice, everything was dark, and the scene before was the disciples witnessing Shifu leaving and calling out for Shifu. And the next moment a very beautiful light melody came up and the lights came on, we see puppeteers lined up with their puppets up, doing the same moves at the same time. That whole environment and the whole network of this ensemble coming together to exchange hands, take over certain puppets and then doing a certain dance — working together, there was a lot of exchange of puppets — there was just this whole sense of grandeur and strong partnership. I don’t know what that’s called, and it might not be considered a breakthrough, but that is always my go-to point of comfort.

E: There was a moment where I was like, “Oh, okay, my sense of purpose was quite great.” We were doing the curtain call, and that was the show after Myra had sprained her ankle, and she was in a lot of pain. I don’t know why, but that show we cried until very cham. It was the last scene when we were all crying out, “Shifu, shifu!” I looked to my side, and I saw a friend from school. He was a very stoic queen, don’t-show-emotions kind of person. But that was the first time I saw him crying – and not just tearing, but full-on sobbing. Then after the show I met him, and I asked him “Wah why you cry until like that?” And he said, he was in his final year in NUS. And he felt very lost, like he had no purpose, and what was he going to do with his life with a theatre degree? So he really felt for the story. And so, seeing just a meter away was a friend who was so affected by the show, I felt like there’s a bit of purpose in what I’m doing. And I felt really thankful that I got to witness that.
有那么一刻我觉得 ”哦，我是有一点使命感的。“那个时候我们做谢幕，那一场演出刚好是丽诗扭到脚的演出，她是抱着痛继续演出的。我也不知道为什么，不过那一场我们哭得特别惨。我们在最后一场呐喊”师傅，师傅！“那一场，我往旁边一看，看到一个大学同学。他平时外表高傲，不善于表露情感，那就是我第一次看到他哭，而且不是落泪而已，而是痛哭。演出过后我和他见面就问他“哇，你做么哭到酱？”他就说他在国大最后一年，觉得很迷惘，好像人生没有目标，一纸剧场研究的文凭能做些什么？所以他真的被故事所感动了。我看到离我一米不远有朋友感触这么深，就觉得或许我现在做的是有一丁点目的的，我也很感激有机会可以目睹那一幕。

Things have changed a lot since 2014, and this time Covid-19 restrictions have affected how theatre productions are made. This 2020 staging is an audio play, and your voices are in it as well. Was there anything that jumped out to you in the process of recording it? 
2014到现在有很多改变，这次冠病疫情的影响也导致剧场的制作必须做出改变。2020年的版本是有声剧场，你们也有献声。你们在录制的时候有没有哪些特别深刻的印象？

E: I mean the first thing is that Kian Sin had to call us from his hotel room because of Stay-Home Notice. When you walk into the space, you see that this is the usual setting that you are used to as an actor who always goes for playreads – like table, director, side by side; but now you see table, chair, one meter, person, one meter, person. Then you turn, and you see a laptop, then you see Kian Sin waving at you from the laptop, and you just feel like, “Oh my god, this is such a strange time to be in.”
首先是因为建松必须从酒店房间和我们通过视频进行导读，因为他在遵守居家隔离。我们一踏入场地，就看到演员去参与导读会所熟悉的 – 一张桌子，导演并排；不过现在看到的是桌子，椅子，一米距离，人，一米距离，人。转头一看，有掌上型电脑，电脑屏幕看到建松跟你挥手，就觉得“天啊，我们现在处于这种时代。” 

And after that we start to read, and then you can tell that everybody has missed it, right? Like, there was a moment where Yue Juan and Beng Tian were rehearsing the part of the turtle (of 龟丞相 Turtle General and 龙王 Dragon King), and they were rehearsing a laugh. It was a very simple thing, and they were like, “Okay, 你: ‘哈哈’, then 我: ‘呵呵’，然后我们一二三 ‘哈哈哈哈哈’”. (You go “haha”, and I will say “hehe”, and then one two three we will go “hahahahaha”) It was very cute lah, they were enjoying doing just a laugh. That was I think in August, and it had been six months since anybody had even touched a script. So that was just very moving.
我们开始导读的时候，就立刻感觉的出，我们都想念剧场好久了，对吗？有一刻悦娟和鸣阗一起排龟丞相和龙王，他们要排一起笑。非常简单的一小段，他们就说“好，你哈哈，我就呵呵，然后我们一二三哈哈哈哈哈。”就很可爱，因为他们就连笑都很享受。那个时候如果我没记错的话是八月底，然后大家已经有差不多六个月的时间没有接触剧本了，所以我就觉得很感动。

M: I think Ellison pretty much said everything. But what I remember very strongly is also because with audio theatre, the performance will have to be very different, because you don’t have the puppets to take over the storytelling. It’s really just your voice. So I remember during the rehearsal, Tze Chien was saying that now, instead of “opening up” your presentation, you must really focus on the nuances and the performance of the voice. I think we were all like, “Okay, this version when we [should] try to be very “真听真看真感受” (to really listen, see, and feel).” And in that delicate emotional state – and also with the context of everybody coming together, once again to read the piece – suddenly it became a very surreal experience for me. I could truly feel everyone in another way again. And of course, I think the recording itself – this whole sense of creating the thing together again – was very poignant, especially during this time where we are not really sure of the future of theatre making. 
我觉得宇泱提的也是我想说的。我清楚记得的是因为有声剧场，所以表演方式是截然不同的，因为没有布偶帮你讲故事，只有一把声音。排练的时候子建说，与其把演出”打开“，反而是应该着重于声音的细腻以及表演。我们大家都一致认同，”哦好，这个版本我们都应该尽量所谓的真听真看真感受“。然后在那个当下，我们的情绪状态，再加上看到整个团队终于聚在一起来导读这部剧的时候，我突然觉得一切真的很不真实。我又可以感受到大家了。当然录音的时候，又感觉到大家一起过了这么久后，尽管未来那么多的不确定性，我们还是召集在一起，它几乎是凄美的。

What do you hope for the future of TBTWT?
你对《掌中》的未来有哪些期许？

E: Some plays, you know that they can go to rest. But I think this is one of those that I think we can always turn back to, not just because of how important it has been for us on a personal capacity, but also as a bigger industry sort of meaning.
有些剧目你会觉得它们可以光荣退休了。不过这个剧目我觉得我们会一直回去接触，不单是因为对我们个人来说它多么重要，而是因为对整个大环境来说是有一定的意义的。

M: I think when we were deciding which play to do this year, we wanted to do an audio theatre, and we pitched to Darren and Tze Chien that we wanted to do TBTWT. Initially, they were a bit hesitant, because for TBTWT, in some ways, the focus is on the art form. So then, when you cut away the visuals, what is left?  But all of us took a step back and imagined how we could reimagine this piece, we collectively took a leap of faith. I feel like it’s also about that transmission of knowledge, of skills, of history. And especially now when we are thinking about moving forward, how do we improve the way we make art? We use technology to help us, we change a certain working system, everything is developing; but the history to me is always very important, because that informs how we ended up here, and it informs how people of that generation created the art that we grew up with. And that forms the context for everyone to move forward. 
今年决定要做哪出戏的时候，我们就想做有声剧场，然后就和泽晖和子建提议想做《掌中》。起初他们有些犹豫，因为《掌中》怎么说是以这门艺术为主轴，所以当你把这个视觉取出，还留下些什么？不过我们都换个角度想，我们会怎么让这出戏重新演绎，就决定一齐义无反顾投入这个创作，因为它也是知识、技艺和历史的传递。尤其是现在我们都说要往前看，那往前看我们要怎么让创作也升华？我们可以用技术助我们一臂之力，可以改变工作方式，一切都在改变，可是历史对我来说永远都是重要的，因为它是我们的根源，它提醒我们怎么走到这里，它也就成为了哪一代人在哪个年代怎么进行艺术的创作，我们才都有共同往前的认知。

So when I think about the future, the story of TBTWT, the Shifu character will always stay with me constantly as a reminder of the dedication that I should also embody, because it’s not a really smooth sailing journey for them. We have a lot more resources now. We should constantly be appreciative of what we have, and the environment that they built for us.
所以当我想到未来的时候，《掌中》以及师傅这个角色一直会跟着我，提醒我应该有的坚持和奉献，因为对他们来说这一路走的不顺遂。我们现在相对有这么多资源，我们应该感恩现在所有的，以及他们为我们成就的。